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Post by hornet on Jan 13, 2010 10:06:41 GMT
So! Blood Bowl! Fancying a bit of a change from the run-and-gun Orc team that I've been playing roughly since the 3rd edition of the board game was released, I'd been thinking giving one of the other sides a run-out. I quite fancied playing a pass-first team for the change of style, but my mind was made up by flicking through the rulebook and coming across a footnote: "Some of the above 21 teams are more challenging than the others to play either because of their skills requiring advanced strategies to be effective or because they have difficulty winning. These teams have been designed this way on purpose to give challenges to coaches who master the basics of Blood Bowl. These more challenging teams are: Chaos..."O RLY? Behold then! The Champions of Carnality! The Princes Of Perversion! The Masters of Molestation! The Slaaneshi Sultans of Shag! The one! The only! The Hochland Hedonists! A fine-looking body of (beast) men, I think you'll agree. Good fun coming up with decently filthy names for the Chaos Warriors that would still be allowed by the word filter. For the record, "Fondle" is fine, "Grope" is right out. Anyway, a look at the roster gives some idea why Chaos teams are so tough to play - they've got only two types of players, who between them have exactly - count 'em! - no skills. Even something as simple as picking the ball up off the ground is potentially a problem for this mob, so throwing it is pretty much out of the question. In theory, their forte is overpowering the opposition and grinding down the pitch leaving broken bodies in their wake, and their headline-act Chaos Warriors are indeed excellent for this purpose being tough, strong and relatively nimble for big fellas. HOWEVER, there is a catch - nobody on the team starts with the near-essential Block skill, meaning that even the big boys will knock themselves down in a block about one time in six (with Block, that chance drops to about one time in twelve). Given that any of your players falling over ends your turn right there, that's a pretty huge problem. So. I need to develop everybody's skills, to make the Chaos Warriors into the unstoppable juggernauts they have to be, and to develop my Beastmen into functional specialists who can do the other clever stuff. Like, you know, picking the ball up. And for that, I need experience points. And for that, I need to score touchdowns and cause casualties. And for that, I need to play games. So I'd better crack on.
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Post by Moo on Jan 13, 2010 10:28:58 GMT
Right, I'll give this thread an hour before closing it. Obviously we can't have any new threads in this forum, especially if your name isn't Stuart and then there's all the paperwork I have to fill in, EU regulations, resetting the fucking swear filter.... endless.
An hour. Two at most.
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Post by coffers on Jan 13, 2010 10:56:47 GMT
I'm looking forward to some pretty fast updates in that case.
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Post by Mr Bismarck's Electric Donkey on Jan 13, 2010 11:54:07 GMT
Quality, Horn. I'm sick of carrying all the unfinished thread weight in this forum.
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Post by Moo on Jan 13, 2010 12:49:40 GMT
Horn, how about some sort of relay game that doesn't involve Stu? It might get past the first season then...
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Post by hornet on Jan 13, 2010 13:34:00 GMT
First to visit the fortress that is... er, a field somewhere are the Black Snakes. I've played them before, they're Dark Elves and they're utter BASTARDS. All their Linemen have got Block which means they can stand pretty miuch toe-to-toe with my Chaos Warriors, and even though they've no specialist throwers or catchers they've still got bastard-high elvish agility and are perfectly capable of running in two-turn touchdowns from almost anywhere on the pitch.
Each Blood Bowl team has a Team Value which reflects the overall quality of a side. Like all starting teams, our TV is 1000, while the more experienced Black Snakes tip the scale at 1180. At the start of each game the team with the lower TV is given cash to buy mercenaries who'll play for them for that game only, or other perks to level the playing field somewhat. As luck would have it, the 180K I'm given is exactly enough to hire a Minotaur to provide a bit of extra beef (DYSWIDT?) to my front line.
Even so, given how difficult it is to get elves to stand still and get hit, and how resiliant the Black Snakes Block-equipped Linemen are, we're going to need to get some good luck and play well to get the win. There are signs the game's going our way early - we win the toss and receive the kick, which goes out of bounds and so we're allowed to give the ball to any of our players. It goes to one of my Beastmen and I form a pocket around him in the left channel just my side of the halfway line. My Minotaur and Chaos Warriors tear through the middle of the Snakes' formation, but don't put anyone down permanently so their entire team flows past my relatively immobile blockers and swarms around the ballcarrier.
Against a fast-moving team it's incredibly important to get the ball first, because it forces them to commit to a melee and with a bit of luck you can inflict enough damage that when it's their turn to receive you've got some hope of defending against it. It's slow going, and by no means a foolproof strategy, especially against a side who're capable of giving almost as good as they get - at one point the Dark Elves had three players in squares around the ballcarrier, but some careful planning of blocks allowed me to clear a path and advance the pocket of protection to clear space further up the field. But as the half went on the casualties started to mount, causing a domino effect - injured players aren't replaced until after a score, so each elf carted off increased our strength advantage and made it that much more likely we'd taste more blood, especially since the ref had been lynched before kickoff allowing us to pile on to grounded players with impunity.
By the time we rumbled in for the score in the final turn of the half, there were three Snakes left on the pitch. Two recovered from being knocked out in time for the second half, but even so 5 vs. 11 was pretty much a formality. Two players killed, five more injured to no casualties for the Hedonists. The only slight fly in the ointment was that half the casualties were inflicted either by the Minotaur (who was only in the team for the game) or by fouling (which doesn't grant any XP), so none of the doughty Slaaneshi lads ended up going up a level. But that's nitpicking what was pretty much a perfect start, particularly given that a particularly energetic five-player bundle at the end of the first half saw the Snakes' star Blitzer carried off with a fractured arm that'll see him out of the return leg.
Black Snakes 0-2 Hochland Hedonists (Snarl (1st Half Turn 8), Grindhowl Lustvenom (2nd Half turn 8)
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Post by coffers on Jan 13, 2010 13:47:31 GMT
:thumb: That's a good start.
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Post by Mr Bismarck's Electric Donkey on Jan 13, 2010 13:49:54 GMT
I always said Blood Bowl 09 was the easy version.
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Post by Moo on Jan 13, 2010 13:56:37 GMT
You did, I remember.
Excellent start to the thread, Horn, looking forward to more updates. I can say that with you, because I know they'll come (most of the time), unlike some others we could mention who promise great things, then just disappoint you.
KUTGW! :thumb:
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Post by Sonic on Jan 13, 2010 14:18:40 GMT
Is that a jinx there Stu?
Nice start there Hornet :thumb:
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Post by hornet on Jan 13, 2010 19:24:56 GMT
The return match with the Snakes was easier, thanks in large part to our having taken out half their Block-capable linemen and leaving them with a team of ten linemen and a Witch Elf. It got even easier when the Witch Elf pointlessly tried to move a couple of extra squares to get in position to assist on a block in the dead turn at the end of the first half. She fell over, blew her armour roll and got carted out on a stretcher. Another 2-0, then, Vilequeeze Foamglutton getting them both.
Next up, a Lizardman team who offered a very different challenge - a core of four big Sauruses who could stand toe-to-toe with my Chaos Warriors and a giant hulking weird lizard-thing that would stand toe-to-mid-thigh with my Chaos Warriors, then a bunch of weedy but very fast-moving Skinks.
The game was a bit of a mess, partly because I wasn't sure whether to stick or twist dealing with the Kroxigor and kept switching tactics between "Everyone Get The Big Lad!" and "Run Away! Run Away!", but also because the fucking Skinks were like getting beach sand in your clothes - they worked into every possible bloody crevice and were a constant irritant. The Lizardmen's complete lack of a throwing game made them relatively easy to defend, but trying to advance the ball on them was a fucking nightmare - every turn two or three would get into the pocket around the ballcarrier, and they couldn't be permanently dealt with because my Chaos Warriors were tied up trying to keep the Saurus and Kroxigor at bay. Eventually I got desperate enough to try an actual pass - the desperation heave missed its target but the ensuing messy scramble saw Thrashbite Lewdfist fall on the ball in the endzone for the game's only touchdown. Scrappy, but they all count.
The Star Player Points he picked up for that saw Lewdfist hit Level 2, and with a sigh of relief I grabbed the Block skill for him. Whine has also picked up Block, while Snuffle's got the Sure Hands skill so that I've at least got one player who's semi-reliable at picking the ball up off the turf. The other player who's advanced is Vilesqueeze Foamglutton, and in a classic bit of overthinking I skipped Block and have got him Guard instead, which makes him much more effective at supporting other players' blocks while not improving his own chance of knocking anyone down. It's a good skill but more often than not he's sharing the line with other Chaos Warriors who really don't need any help putting the oppo down, so I'd probably have been better off just taking the predictable, boring option.
Now I've got a couple of players who're more difficult to replace I've invested in an Apothecary, who allows you to re-roll an injury result on one of your players once per game. I've resisted spending any more cash because I really want to get a Minotaur as a permanent team member, and they don't come cheap. After the 50K for the Apothecary, I've 108,000 left, so still need 42,000 more for the big fella - two more wins should do it unless I take casualties somewhere along the line.
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Post by Moo on Jan 14, 2010 9:42:31 GMT
Can't you just trade for Peyton Manning?
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Post by coffers on Jan 14, 2010 9:55:25 GMT
Can't you just trade for Peyton Manning? That's what Fuzzy would do.
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Post by Mr Bismarck's Electric Donkey on Jan 14, 2010 12:45:25 GMT
The good news is that I finally relented and bought this yesterday. The gooderer news is that bad AI won't be an issue for me as I don't remember anything. I played a couple of games yesterday as Skaven and couldn't for the life of me work out how to break a cage for bigger players. I lost the first game 2-0 and the second 3-0, although it should have been a 2-1, but somehow my Gutter Runner failed a roll moving out of a tackle zone and didn't get a reroll, despite having Dodge, then fumbled allowing the bad guys to run in the third untouched. Either I need to swap to humans to get a boring balanced team while I remember how to play this thing, or i need to continue losing with the Skaven until I'm fired. And write a thread about it.
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Post by hornet on Jan 14, 2010 13:17:17 GMT
Usually the re-rolls for skills like Dodge and Sure Hands are done automatically - you can see it in the game log (the "piece of paper" icon in the bottom left of the screen).
I have no idea how to break a cage with small players. I get round this by never playing as team with small players in it.
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Post by hornet on Jan 14, 2010 14:12:48 GMT
It's playoff time!
Apparently.
I really should have played closer attention to how the league structure works in this game.
Anyway, back by popular demand it's the bloody Black Snakes again, who really quite badly need to fuck off and stop bothering me. The difference this time - with the skills we've picked up, our increased number of fans and the apothocary the Team Values are now close enough that I can't afford another Minotaur to reinforce my lineup.
Bugger.
Still, the good news is we win the toss again, and will get the ball to start again. The bad news is that without the Mino we can't seem to cause enough damage quickly enough to advance the ball safely and instead have to crab the cage sideways and forwards agonisingly slowly as tiny gaps present themselves. Still, in the final turn of the half we've got the ball tight to the touchline six squares from the endzone - there are a couple of Snake players in the way, but even with no rerolls left I only need a pushback result from a three-dice block followed by either a dodge roll I've got a 66% chance of making or a 2-dice block pushback to get the opening score.
Which is, of course, when I roll the 3-dicer and get triple skulls - Defender down. For those keeping score, that's less than 1% shot, and we go in at halftime level. Worse, one of my Chaos Warriors got his stupid self knocked out leaving me having to defend in the second half with 10 vs. 11.
The Snakes get the ball to Flashing Norolath, their star Blitzer, right from kickoff and start to form the cage on the left wing near the halfway line, away from my Chaos Warriors who're in the centre and right side. BUT! One of their linemen tries to duck away from the line of scrimmage to form the right-front corner of the cage and blows his Dodge roll, ending the Dark Elves' turn and giving me just a faint glimmer of an opportunity. Whine, my Block-Equipped Beastman, has the narrowest possible clear run through to Norolath and once Lustvenom and Thrustquiver have moved in to stop the front members of the cage assisting their captain, he goes for it. Whine dashes in and manages to knock Norolath down, a lucky bounce sees the ball bounce right back into his hands, he makes the Catch roll to hang onto it despite being in two tackle zones then makes the Dodge roll to dive back out of the cage before the full force of righteous retribution can come down on him. You heroic little Randy Pan The Goat Boy BEAUTY!
We form a decidedly makeshift pocket on the halfway line - one of the fundamental principles of creating a cage is that you have to do it somewhere where no opposing players are in contact with your blockers - since each team is only allowed to have one player combine movement and throwing a block each turn, it's almost impossible for the defence to break through to the ballcarrier. However, because of the ramshackle and opportunistic way we got the ball back there's no chance to separate from the defenders and so rather than a carefully-contstructed pocket what results is basically a large ruck with every available player thrown in any available spot. Every turn they take out one or two of the blockers and get two or three players around Whine. Every turn we just about manage to force them back but there's absolutely no chance to advance the ball even after we've knocked out a couple of their players and when their turn 14 starts and the message comes up that if the game ends in a draw we'll go to extra time it's a result I'm happy to settle for.
Then, just like that, the tide turns. They have three two-dice blocks on Thrashblight Lewdfist on the front-right corner of the cage. The first two are "Both down unless you have the Block skill" and see him stand firm. The third is double skulls and sees him knock out Flashing Norolath, the first turnover early in the turn for either team and finally a chance to advance the ball. Taking advantage of the fact that the Snakes chose not to stand up a couple of players - they obviously wanted to shift Lewdfist and move the knocked-down players into the gap behind him - any of my guys who're engaged knock their man down, anyone who isn't engaged piles forward in a convoy-stroke-mob. The sudden space between the two teams means that for the first time we've got the advantage and in the last turn of the game we shepherd away the one defender who manages to scramble back into position and get a clear run into the endzone.
Black Snakes 0-1 Hochland Hedonists (Whine, turn 16)
50,000 Gold Crowns prize money! What time is it? It's minotaur time!
Also: I get the chance to correct my mistake straight away, as Vilesqueeze Foamglutton goes up another level and this time I pick up Block for him.
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Post by coffers on Jan 14, 2010 14:36:21 GMT
Excellent!
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Post by Moo on Jan 14, 2010 15:20:31 GMT
I have no idea what any of that meant, but it sounds like fun. I think. Oh and Stu - you really are a tart.
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Post by Sonic on Jan 14, 2010 15:40:28 GMT
Oh and Stu - you really are a tart. Surely he wouldn't allow them to run in untouched if he was? Oh.
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Post by Moo on Jan 14, 2010 16:12:30 GMT
I meant for buying this game even though he was adamant he had enough games already.
But yes, his tactics suXXorz.
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Post by hornet on Jan 18, 2010 16:27:05 GMT
Spent most of my weekend fiddling with my Airfix Harrier (NOT A EUPHANISM) but there was a chance to play a couple of games.
In the final of Whateverthehellthefirsttournamentyouplayiniscalled we were up against a very handy Human team, the Gocobblers. Humans, as per usual in this sort of game, are the "baseline" team - doing everything pretty well and lacking the glaring weaknesses of the specialised races but also lacking their overpowering strengths. It was likely to be a tough game because across the board they were almost as bashy as us - particularly their excellent Blitzers and slightly-scary looking third-level Ogre - while being a bit faster and significantly better in the passing game.
And so it proved from the off. We kicked away, they got the ball, their Catchers dodged past my front line in sufficient numbers that I couldn't get enough defenders to effectively cover all of them, they chucked it to the one that was still (reasonably) open and he dodged in for a two-turn touchdown.
Prick.
That gave us six turns to find an equaliser before halftime, and it wasn't looking great when I got my team too spread out, the pocket around Snuffle, my Sure Handed beastman ballcarrier collapsed reasonably spectacularly and Snuffle got mugged with the ball bouncing into the hands of a Gocobblers lineman. BUT! Whine to the rescue again - he gored the runner into the middle of next week which allowed Snort to gather up the ball and fling it desperately upfield toward team captain Grindhowl Lustvenom, who'd found himself deep in Gocobblers territory whilst pursuing his hobby of punching people hard in the face. The pass was as much a clearing punt upfield than a serious attempt to score but, glory be, somehow the ball landed right in Lustvenom's hands and he rumbled off toward the endzone. A lineman got back to cause some minor inconvenience, but one strategically applied boot to the swingers later and we went to half time all square.
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Post by Mr Bismarck's Electric Donkey on Jan 18, 2010 16:32:58 GMT
It's the "Clean Cup" which is not the sort of place where you'd expect to run into a bunch of Human CockGobblers. Though I'm not the expert.
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Post by coffers on Jan 18, 2010 17:03:30 GMT
KUTGSABTTSW!
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Post by Moo on Jan 19, 2010 8:54:53 GMT
Strategic boot to the swingers.
Sounds like CotDII etc....
KUTGW!
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Post by elth on Jan 23, 2010 3:15:15 GMT
I understand enough about the Warhammer universe, and enough about Helmetball, that I sort of have a vague idea what all this means, but I've never actually playing Blood Bowl, so...it's staying vague.
Still, er, KUTPGW work!
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